Upgrading from an old Spendor BC1

[RPS]

I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.

I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.

A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.

R

[harrogate]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

There is a Spendor mod for the BC1 to increase the size of the port and fit
a tube in it. Don't think I noticed much/any difference.

I went from BC1s to KEF Q55 but, apart from a brighter and less warm
presentation, I wish I had not. For classical/jazz and a good part of modern
light pop there really isn't much to beat the BC1.

If you're happy with them (presumably you have them on stands?) spend the
money on a holiday instead.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by harrogate
There is a Spendor mod for the BC1 to increase the size of the port and
fit a tube in it. Don't think I noticed much/any difference.

The first mod to this was simply a foam lining round the port.

[RPS]

Post by harrogate
There is a Spendor mod for the BC1 to increase the size of the port and fit
a tube in it. Don't think I noticed much/any difference.
I went from BC1s to KEF Q55 but, apart from a brighter and less warm
presentation, I wish I had not. For classical/jazz and a good part of modern
light pop there really isn't much to beat the BC1.
If you're happy with them (presumably you have them on stands?) spend the
money on a holiday instead.

Thank you for your response. Yes I do have them on stands and have been
happy enough to have lived with them for 20+ years. The only flaw I
have ever noticed has to do with male voices (announcers on my local
classical music station) which seem to produce a very slight hissing.
But I have not set up my system to listen to announcers and if they
carry on too long, I would change the station or the source anyway.

I would not change these speakers lightly. I am only interested in
investigating what is available, and at what price, that would feel
like an upgrade.

RPS

[tony sayer]

In article <161020030411534224%***@null.void>, RPS <***@null.void>
writes

Post by RPS

Post by harrogate
There is a Spendor mod for the BC1 to increase the size of the port and fit
a tube in it. Don't think I noticed much/any difference.
I went from BC1s to KEF Q55 but, apart from a brighter and less warm
presentation, I wish I had not. For classical/jazz and a good part of modern
light pop there really isn't much to beat the BC1.
If you're happy with them (presumably you have them on stands?) spend the
money on a holiday instead.

Thank you for your response. Yes I do have them on stands and have been
happy enough to have lived with them for 20+ years. The only flaw I
have ever noticed has to do with male voices (announcers on my local
classical music station) which seem to produce a very slight hissing.
But I have not set up my system to listen to announcers and if they
carry on too long, I would change the station or the source anyway.

What "local" classical station would that be then?. Are you in the
states?, as there're no local classical stations in the UK.

I very much expect that your BC1's are showing up what the broadcasters
transmitting which is what they were originally used for, monitoring!..

Post by RPS
I would not change these speakers lightly. I am only interested in
investigating what is available, and at what price, that would feel
like an upgrade.
RPS

[RPS]

[chi.general added in case anybody cares to comment on the slight
"hissing" I hear in male WFMT announcers' voices on my audio system]

Post by tony sayer

The only flaw I have ever noticed [in Spendor BC1's] has to do with male
voices (announcers on my local classical music station) which seem to
produce a very slight hissing. But I have not set up my system to listen to
announcers and if they carry on too long, I would change the station or
the source anyway.

What "local" classical station would that be then?. Are you in the
states?, as there're no local classical stations in the UK.

Yes, WFMT in Chicago.

Post by tony sayer
I very much expect that your BC1's are showing up what the broadcasters
transmitting which is what they were originally used for, monitoring!..

That's what I thought, but over the years I have listened to WFMT on a
large number of systems in various high-end stores in this area and the
effect was not always present. Of course it could be anywhere between
my antenna, tuner, amp, and the speaker, but it has persisted through
one change of tuner and amp.

Anyway, not a big deal since I don't sit down to a long session of
listening to announcers, and the speakers have performed very well on
music.

RPS

[Dave Plowman]

Post by RPS
That's what I thought, but over the years I have listened to WFMT on a
large number of systems in various high-end stores in this area and the
effect was not always present. Of course it could be anywhere between
my antenna, tuner, amp, and the speaker, but it has persisted through
one change of tuner and amp.

A small amount of multi-path will give this effect while going virtually
unnoticed on most music.

[Anthony Edwards]

Post by RPS
Thank you for your response. Yes I do have them on stands and have been
happy enough to have lived with them for 20+ years. The only flaw I
have ever noticed has to do with male voices (announcers on my local
classical music station) which seem to produce a very slight hissing.

Perhaps the announcers themselves are hissing? I agree with other
comments in this thread that the Spendor BC1 is a classic monitor,
and it would be difficult indeed to improve significantly upon the
BC1 by replacement with a more modern alternative.

[Stewart Pinkerton]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:51:22 -0000, Anthony Edwards

Post by Anthony Edwards

Post by RPS
Thank you for your response. Yes I do have them on stands and have been
happy enough to have lived with them for 20+ years. The only flaw I
have ever noticed has to do with male voices (announcers on my local
classical music station) which seem to produce a very slight hissing.

Perhaps the announcers themselves are hissing? I agree with other
comments in this thread that the Spendor BC1 is a classic monitor,
and it would be difficult indeed to improve significantly upon the
BC1 by replacement with a more modern alternative.

If one did, however, then the obvious first stop is the current
Spendor range, then perhaps Proac.

[Anthony Edwards]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:35:55 GMT, Stewart Pinkerton

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
If one did, however, then the obvious first stop is the current
Spendor range, then perhaps Proac.

I am awaiting with mounting excitement the arrival of my new ATC Active
10s and CA2 pre-amp next week!

[Stewart Pinkerton]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:22:35 -0000, Anthony Edwards

Post by Anthony Edwards
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:35:55 GMT, Stewart Pinkerton

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
If one did, however, then the obvious first stop is the current
Spendor range, then perhaps Proac.

I am awaiting with mounting excitement the arrival of my new ATC Active
10s and CA2 pre-amp next week!

Entirely different balance. Certainly to my taste, but likely not to
anyone who is happy with the BC1.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by RPS
The only flaw I
have ever noticed has to do with male voices (announcers on my local
classical music station) which seem to produce a very slight hissing.

Hmm. This is very likely to be as transmitted - or received - rather than
being down to the speaker. Of course it's quite possible to fry the HF
1300 'lower HF' units which will result in distorted sibilants.

[Mike O'Sullivan]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.

I added a REL Stadium sub-woofer to my BC1s. It sounds superb and gives the
Spendors a new lease of life.

[tony sayer]

In article <151020031648121052%***@null.void>, RPS <***@null.void>
writes

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.

Well IMHO there're still damm good speakers and I'm still very happy
with the pair I use in my workshop/office!..FWIW!..

Post by RPS
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

[Michael Scarpitti]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

Back in 1981, I purchased a pair of Rogers Studio 1's, which are quite
similar to the BC1 by Spendor. Two years ago, I sold them and got a
pair of used Yamaha NS-1000M's, which are actually a few years older.
I have been deliriously happy with them. I strongly recommend them.
Strongly! The way the the Spendor/Rogers BBC design uses the woofer,
by running it up into the mid-range, makes it 'slow'. The Yammies are
MUCH, MUCH faster, and extraordinarily clean and uncoloured. You'll be
stunned. You'll skip sleep just to listen to them.

[Stewart Pinkerton]

Post by Michael Scarpitti

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

Back in 1981, I purchased a pair of Rogers Studio 1's, which are quite
similar to the BC1 by Spendor. Two years ago, I sold them and got a
pair of used Yamaha NS-1000M's, which are actually a few years older.
I have been deliriously happy with them. I strongly recommend them.
Strongly! The way the the Spendor/Rogers BBC design uses the woofer,
by running it up into the mid-range, makes it 'slow'. The Yammies are
MUCH, MUCH faster, and extraordinarily clean and uncoloured. You'll be
stunned. You'll skip sleep just to listen to them.

They're good speakers, and certainly 'classics' like the BC1, but they
don't really compare to modern speakers such as the B&W N804s, which
are in the same price bracket as the NS-1000M when it was available
new on the UK market. They were always an *exciting* listen, but
lacked the smooth neutrality of contemporary Proacs. My neighbour had
Proacs at the time I had the Yammys, and we had many a 'frank and
forthright exchange of views' about their relative sound quality!

Personally, if the poster likes the BC1, I'm sure that he'd find the
current Spendor and Proac ranges to be 'more of the same', but
generally cleaned up and with tighter bass.

[RPS]

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
Personally, if the poster likes the BC1, I'm sure that he'd find the
current Spendor and Proac ranges to be 'more of the same', but
generally cleaned up and with tighter bass.

I do like the BC1's. I selected them 20+ years ago after agonizing
comparisons involving competing models form KEF, B&W, B&O, Rogers,
Canton, and several American companies. (Since then I have been happy
enough not to search any more. My trips to audio shops have been for
other components, or with friends on their listening sessions. This did
expose me to several very good and very expensive speakers, but nothing
I would/could consider for myself.)

I appreciate your response, this is just the kind of recommendation I
need.

Do you have any opinion on the Dynaudio and new Quad range?

In any brand, what would be the expected price range for a speaker that
would be "a step up" from the BC1's, if the concept makes sense to you?

I envy the schedule I had during my earlier purchase. Schedule of
classes often left entire days "free". I lived in NYC and had to travel
to England a couple of times for family reasons. Chicago is not exactly
wilderness but it does not match the "NYC + London" combination. That
and time make it essential for me to work much more systematically,
with a short list of brands to explore.

PS. Given that speakers are one thing the British (Japanese) have the
reputation of doing (not doing) right, I find it interesting that a
British audiophile should have owned Yamaha speakers; they must have
been quite good!

RPS

[Stewart Pinkerton]

Post by RPS

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
Personally, if the poster likes the BC1, I'm sure that he'd find the
current Spendor and Proac ranges to be 'more of the same', but
generally cleaned up and with tighter bass.

I do like the BC1's. I selected them 20+ years ago after agonizing
comparisons involving competing models form KEF, B&W, B&O, Rogers,
Canton, and several American companies. (Since then I have been happy
enough not to search any more. My trips to audio shops have been for
other components, or with friends on their listening sessions. This did
expose me to several very good and very expensive speakers, but nothing
I would/could consider for myself.)
I appreciate your response, this is just the kind of recommendation I
need.
Do you have any opinion on the Dynaudio and new Quad range?

The Dynaudio range is IMHO absolutely superb, but may be a little too
'in yer face' for someone who is happy with the slightly 'rose-tinted'
balance of the BC1.

Post by RPS
In any brand, what would be the expected price range for a speaker that
would be "a step up" from the BC1's, if the concept makes sense to you?

You wouldn't need to spend more than £1,000 to obtain an *objectively*
superior speaker, but to get something with the same warm balance as
the BC1, but with the clarity of modern speakers, might take twice the
money and a *lot* of careful searching. There is a *huge* range of
highly competent speakers on the market these days, in the critical
£1,000 to £3,000 range. They all sound different, and only one will
the 'best' for you.

Post by RPS
I envy the schedule I had during my earlier purchase. Schedule of
classes often left entire days "free". I lived in NYC and had to travel
to England a couple of times for family reasons. Chicago is not exactly
wilderness but it does not match the "NYC + London" combination. That
and time make it essential for me to work much more systematically,
with a short list of brands to explore.

Ahhhh, the farty city must indeed seem like one of the inner circles
of Dante's Inferno, after the stunning cultural combination of NYC and
London!

Post by RPS
PS. Given that speakers are one thing the British (Japanese) have the
reputation of doing (not doing) right, I find it interesting that a
British audiophile should have owned Yamaha speakers; they must have
been quite good!

They were extremely good. Not neutral by any means, but always clean,
exciting and dramatic - 'musical' in the best sense.

[RPS]

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
The Dynaudio range is IMHO absolutely superb, but may be a little too
'in yer face' for someone who is happy with the slightly 'rose-tinted'
balance of the BC1.

Too many people have said good things about Dynaudio for me to ignore
it, so I'll add it to my so-far-short-list of Spendor and Proac. Much
as I have loved my BC1's, it was twenty years ago when I did any
serious comparative listening when Dynaudio either didn't exist or I
didn't run into them. Anyway, it is good to revisit old decisions once
in a while.

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
Ahhhh, the farty city must indeed seem like one of the inner circles
of Dante's Inferno, after the stunning cultural combination of NYC and
London!

You must not like Chicago all that much then? :-) It is quite livable
and pleasant in so many ways. Of course NYC + London had more audio
salons and I took good advantage of that opportunity 20 years ago...

If you don't mind, and if it can be summarized briefly. what has been
your progression with loudspeakers?

Raghu

[Dave Plowman]

Post by RPS
PS. Given that speakers are one thing the British (Japanese) have the
reputation of doing (not doing) right, I find it interesting that a
British audiophile should have owned Yamaha speakers; they must have
been quite good!

The NS-1000Ms were a bit of a rose among thorns. ;-)

[Fleetie]

Post by Dave Plowman
The NS-1000Ms were a bit of a rose among thorns. ;-)

Well screw all that. They were sensitive!

I well remember to this day (like it'd be forgettable; no!) listening/
being nearly deafened by a Quad 606 at full whack feeding NS-1000Ms in
a small listening room upstairs in the Chatham branch (where I worked
part-time) of Sevenoaks Hi-Fi, playing Metallica's "One"! Imagine it:
100+ watts into NS-1000Ms in a small room, and it was LOUD! WOW! We sat
there transfixed, our ears nearly bleeding! I still have that 12", and damn
good it is too!

Mind you, we were the ones who had Kef 104 Mk II speakers downstairs
and who used to let rip with "Money For Nothing" and Belinda Carlisle's
"Nobody Owns Me" (or whatever that track was called) and wander off down
Chatham high street and see how far along we could still hear it!


Happy days!


Martin

[Stewart Pinkerton]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:25:53 +0100, Dave Plowman

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by RPS
PS. Given that speakers are one thing the British (Japanese) have the
reputation of doing (not doing) right, I find it interesting that a
British audiophile should have owned Yamaha speakers; they must have
been quite good!

The NS-1000Ms were a bit of a rose among thorns. ;-)

Indeed yes, and *not* to be confused with the ubiquitous NS-10M!!

[John Phillips]

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
Personally, if the poster likes the BC1, I'm sure that he'd find the
current Spendor and Proac ranges to be 'more of the same', ...

I agree. I loved the Spendor BC1 many years ago when I bought my first
audio kit but could not afford them. A recent upgrade had me shortlisting
from the modern Spendor and Proac ranges.

For Spendor the OP may want to think of the "classic" large standmounters
like the SP1/2E (nominally a direct descendent of the BC1 - see
http://www.spendoraudio.com/HISTORY.HTM) as well as the newer more
prominently advertised "lifestyle" S8.

For Proac the Response series (Response D15, D25 ...) is probably the
appropriate range.

I also had a listen to the PMC FB1 and the Quad 22L (both excellent in
their own ways) before buying the Proac Response D15.

Post by Stewart Pinkerton
... but
generally cleaned up and with tighter bass.

Precisely so. Improved dynamics and imaging too compared to my (possibly
unreliable) audio memory.

[RPS]

Post by John Phillips
For Spendor the OP may want to think of the "classic" large standmounters
like the SP1/2E (nominally a direct descendent of the BC1 - see
http://www.spendoraudio.com/HISTORY.HTM) as well as the newer more
prominently advertised "lifestyle" S8.
For Proac the Response series (Response D15, D25 ...) is probably the
appropriate range.
I also had a listen to the PMC FB1 and the Quad 22L (both excellent in
their own ways) before buying the Proac Response D15.

Thank you for your most helpful response. As you have recently compared
the same brands (Spendor, Proac, Quad, etc) that I am thinking about, I
would be most interested to hear about your auditioning experience.

Did you listen to Dynaudios too?

Raghu

[John Phillips]

Post by RPS
Thank you for your most helpful response. As you have recently compared
the same brands (Spendor, Proac, Quad, etc) that I am thinking about, I
would be most interested to hear about your auditioning experience.
Did you listen to Dynaudios too?

I am a little hesitant to put forward more of my own views since my
preferences at a detailed level may be very different to yours, our
mutual liking for the Spendor BC1 notwithstanding.

Dynaudio range: No, I did not audition any of these. However they have
a tremendous reputation.

Quad 22L: Very transparent and tonally neutral (maybe a little light on
bass). Not as good dynamically as others. Tremendous quality of build
and finish.

Spendor S8 (not S8e which seems now to be the updated model): Very
transparent and tonally neutral with good bass and smooth treble. Good
dynamics. Good imaging. Really excellent all round and something I could
happily live with long-term.

Spendor SP1/2E: I mentioned this one as a possible candidate but I did
not audition it. Domestic arrangements meant I wanted to move away from
an existing large stand-mounter so this form factor was not acceptable
despite some very promising on-line opinions.

PMC FB1: Beautifully controlled and extended bass and extended treble
with a little more "spit" than the S8. Possibly the most neutral "monitor
quality" candidate of the lot but not musically lively at low listening
levels.

Proac Response D15: Not as tonally neutral as the S8s. Good
imaging. Smooth treble, fairly tight bass, very good dynamics and a
sort of dynamic musicality at all volume levels that just appealed to
me above the greater neutrality of the S8 and FB1.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Michael Scarpitti
he way the the Spendor/Rogers BBC design uses the woofer,
by running it up into the mid-range, makes it 'slow'.

Dunno what you mean by slow, but there's a lot to be said for keeping
crossover frequencies out of the ear's most critical band.

Post by Michael Scarpitti
The Yammies are MUCH, MUCH faster, and extraordinarily clean and
uncoloured. You'll be stunned. You'll skip sleep just to listen to them.

They're far too 'chromium plated' for my tastes.

[Michael Scarpitti]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Michael Scarpitti
he way the the Spendor/Rogers BBC design uses the woofer,
by running it up into the mid-range, makes it 'slow'.

Dunno what you mean by slow, but there's a lot to be said for keeping
crossover frequencies out of the ear's most critical band.

I thought so too, but over the decades I grew tired of the slowness.
When I had a chance to audition a used set of Yammies, I was blown
away. All the soft spots of the Studio 1's (which are almost identical
with the BC1's) were fixed. I had heard the Yammies many moons before,
back when they first came out, and I had forgotten about them.

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Michael Scarpitti
The Yammies are MUCH, MUCH faster, and extraordinarily clean and
uncoloured. You'll be stunned. You'll skip sleep just to listen to them.

They're far too 'chromium plated' for my tastes.

I love mine, and they simply blow away the Rogers Studio 1's, in all
respects. It is worth pointing out that I owned them for 20 years.

[Michael Scarpitti]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

Check e-bay for NS-1000M's. They go for $600-1500/pr, depending on
condition and the state of the ecomomy. Recently they have been
selling on the low end of that scale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758617083&category=3702

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052514899&category=14993

[Terry]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

I had spendor bc1 speakers fo 20 years and eventually exchanged them
for KEF 104 mk11 speakers. For sheer clarity I have not heard anything
to beat the KEFs.

Regards

[RJH]

Post by RPS
I have been living with a pair of old Spendor BC1 speakers. While I
bought these after careful research and auditions long ago, I have not
followed the market isince then. No doubt, much has changed.
I'd be grateful for your suggestions on what budget is rquired for a
meaningful upgrade, the next step up if you wish, in today's market. If
you can suggest a few names, primarily for classical music, that would
be even better.
A few friends have suggested Spendor's own S6, but I would like to
consider other options as well before choosing.
R

Hi - just followed this thread in an ambling way, and note Dynaudio pops up
from time to time. I have some baby 42s, and they are like no other IMO. I
heard some big new standmount Spendors a short while ago (on the back of
various Naim stuff) and didn't really get on with it - quite restrained,
polite, 'undynamic' to be nasty. The Dynaudios have a punch/kick/slam all of
their own and just soak up power. I auditioned them next to B&W, PMC, AVI
and whatever else Cornflake Shop has at that price. But they can be a little
'relentless', and 'warm' they are not. Give 'em a try!
HTH
Rob