Discussion:
Joe's Booster Plan for 16-65 bites the big one
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ScottW
2021-09-18 06:20:15 UTC
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Voted down for lack of data 16-2

Meanwhile...maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317

Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant surges.

Whoops!

Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-18 15:15:11 UTC
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Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed? Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
ScottW
2021-09-18 16:45:05 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
That wasn't my first word......but you know that liar.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed?
Why doesn't CDC have the data?
Post by MiNe109
Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Delta was spreading 3.5 months ago. It wasn't an unknown.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
Not at preventing cases. Just helps you live through it...but not always.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-18 18:55:04 UTC
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Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
That wasn't my first word......but you know that liar.
Apologies. I overlooked your sentence because it lacked meaningful context.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed?
Why doesn't CDC have the data?
They could look here:
https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/dfr-covid19-modeling-091421.pdf
Speaking of which, Vermont COVID rates are falling, not "about to set
a new high." The unvaccinated case rate is "3.7X higher" as is the
hospitalization rate according to the slides.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Delta was spreading 3.5 months ago. It wasn't an unknown.
Not completely, but it did move the bar for vaccination levels needed.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
Not at preventing cases.
Today's news was Moderna holding at 92% effectiveness in preventing
hospitalizations. The initial studies showed 90% against infection.
Post by ScottW
Just helps you live through it...but not always.
Way safer than unvaccinated COVID.
ScottW
2021-09-19 04:11:44 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
That wasn't my first word......but you know that liar.
Apologies. I overlooked your sentence because it lacked meaningful context.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed?
Why doesn't CDC have the data?
https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/dfr-covid19-modeling-091421.pdf
Speaking of which, Vermont COVID rates are falling, not "about to set
a new high."
Look at the dates on the slide...the high came and went.
Post by MiNe109
The unvaccinated case rate is "3.7X higher" as is the
hospitalization rate according to the slides.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Delta was spreading 3.5 months ago. It wasn't an unknown.
Not completely, but it did move the bar for vaccination levels needed.
Yeah....way more people have natural immunity now and won't need to be vaxxed.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
Not at preventing cases.
Today's news was Moderna holding at 92% effectiveness in preventing
hospitalizations.
and there ya go....ignoring what I just said...again.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-19 14:32:41 UTC
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Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Why doesn't CDC have the data?
https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/dfr-covid19-modeling-091421.pdf
Speaking of which, Vermont COVID rates are falling, not "about to set
a new high."
Look at the dates on the slide...the high came and went.
It didn't set a "new high" and you were talking about the future. If you
had old info you might have checked to see if it panned out.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
The unvaccinated case rate is "3.7X higher" as is the
hospitalization rate according to the slides.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Delta was spreading 3.5 months ago. It wasn't an unknown.
Not completely, but it did move the bar for vaccination levels needed.
Yeah....way more people have natural immunity now and won't need to be vaxxed.
Individual levels of immunity vary. Vaccines are still effective for
those who have recovered from COVID.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting
there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
Not at preventing cases.
Today's news was Moderna holding at 92% effectiveness in preventing
hospitalizations.
and there ya go....ignoring what I just said...again.
And you snipped the sentence citing effectiveness against infection. Tit
for tat, I suppose, cuz that's how you roll.
Art Sackman
2021-09-19 01:25:43 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed? Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
not necessarily for everybody
it is common and customary for meds and treatments to have warnings for
individuals in certain specific situations
MiNe109
2021-09-19 14:33:55 UTC
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Post by Art Sackman
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Meanwhile...
You're off your own topic from the first word.
Post by ScottW
maybe 'ol Joe shouldn't have gone all in on Trumps vaccine.
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1438574614808973317
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of
adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is
about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci
said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant
surges.
Whoops!
Is it inconceivable the high rate is due to infection among the
unvaxxed? Or that Fauci's statement was before delta was predominant?
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
Vaccines are safe and effective.
not necessarily for everybody
For the vast majority of people.
Post by Art Sackman
it is common and customary for meds and treatments to have warnings for
individuals in certain specific situations
It's safer for those who can't be vaccinated to be surrounded by
vaccinated people.
Art Sackman
2021-09-19 15:40:47 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
It's safer for those who can't be vaccinated to be surrounded by
vaccinated people.
Its SAFEST for those who can't be vaccinated to be surrounded by
people who have acquired natural immunity
MiNe109
2021-09-19 16:33:42 UTC
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Post by Art Sackman
Post by MiNe109
It's safer for those who can't be vaccinated to be surrounded by
vaccinated people.
Its SAFEST for those who can't be vaccinated to be surrounded by
people who have acquired natural immunity
No, as the vaccinated have a more dependable immune response. Also, the
newly recovered COVID are more likely to be contagious than the
never-ill vaccinated.
MiNe109
2021-09-18 19:15:00 UTC
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Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/

New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.

One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from April
through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those who were
unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully vaccinated to get
infected, over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized and 11 times more
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

End quote.
Art Sackman
2021-09-19 01:26:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from April
through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those who were
unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully vaccinated to get
infected, over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized and 11 times more
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical
it said nothing about those with natural immunity
ScottW
2021-09-19 04:21:11 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from April
through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those who were
unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully vaccinated to get
infected,
That number is simply meaningless because people who don't get hospitalized
are often not getting tested.
My vaxxed wife went to urgent care and they said she had covid but only offered a test.
She declined. Any idea if her case was recorded? I doubt it.
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed but not hospitalized
cases are escaping. I wouldn't be surprise if the actual case rate is nearly identical
but the less severe vaxxed cases have a much higher rate of escape from detection.
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical
it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.

Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting political pressure on FDA for boosters
but the torched Trump for suspected pressure that was never shown to be real to approve the vaccine.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-19 14:31:54 UTC
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On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 6:26:48 PM UTC-7,
On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 3:15:03 PM UTC-4, MINe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting
there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
Post by MiNe109
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from
April through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those
who were unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully
vaccinated to get infected,
That number is simply meaningless because people who don't get
hospitalized are often not getting tested. My vaxxed wife went to
urgent care and they said she had covid but only offered a test. She
declined. Any idea if her case was recorded? I doubt it.
Estimates still happen, like in the Vermont reports we just looked at.
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed but not
hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be surprise if the
actual case rate is nearly identical but the less severe vaxxed
cases have a much higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control study, being
unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection
compared with being fully vaccinated."
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting political
pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump for suspected
pressure that was never shown to be real to approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily bureaucratic @US_FDA
saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new vaccines, it is
still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam vaccines out NOW, Dr. Hahn
@SteveFDA. Stop playing games and start saving lives!!!"

Is that not pressure?
ScottW
2021-09-19 16:33:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 6:26:48 PM UTC-7,
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting
there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from
April through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those
who were unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully
vaccinated to get infected,
That number is simply meaningless because people who don't get
hospitalized are often not getting tested. My vaxxed wife went to
urgent care and they said she had covid but only offered a test. She
declined. Any idea if her case was recorded? I doubt it.
Estimates still happen, like in the Vermont reports we just looked at.
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning.
Estimates (right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the "experts"
react accordingly and accomplished nothing but economic mayhem.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed but not
hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be surprise if the
actual case rate is nearly identical but the less severe vaxxed
cases have a much higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control study, being
unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection
compared with being fully vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion is a little stretched.
Case group...all had covid and got it again. 246 cases.


Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3% of people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid again.
50 people. 199 got it again without the vaccine
WTF? That's not what the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?

In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it again yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed.
So that means 66% (324) of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to not get it again.

Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude that you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected
if you had covid and don't get vaxxed.
Post by MiNe109
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting political
pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump for suspected
pressure that was never shown to be real to approve the vaccine.
saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new vaccines, it is
still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam vaccines out NOW, Dr. Hahn
@SteveFDA. Stop playing games and start saving lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different.
They had the data. Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to decide.
They needed a kick in the ass.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-19 17:54:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 6:26:48 PM UTC-7,
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting
there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as
the extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states
from April through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer,
those who were unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than
the fully vaccinated to get infected,
That number is simply meaningless because people who don't get
hospitalized are often not getting tested. My vaxxed wife went
to urgent care and they said she had covid but only offered a
test. She declined. Any idea if her case was recorded? I doubt
it.
Estimates still happen, like in the Vermont reports we just looked at.
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning. Estimates
(right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the "experts" react
accordingly and accomplished nothing but economic mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New Zealand,
South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific models can work.

While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive effect on
poverty levels according to the Census.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed but
not hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be surprise if
the actual case rate is nearly identical but the less severe
vaxxed cases have a much higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control study,
being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of
reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion is a
little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it again. 246
cases.
That's how they were selected.
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3% of
people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid again. 50
people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF? That's not what
the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it again
yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that means 66% (324)
of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to not get it again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected so I don't
see how that makes your point.

To say they didn't need need vaccination would require comparing the
control group to another control group.
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude that
you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you had covid and
don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic regression."
Post by MiNe109
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting political
pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump for suspected
pressure that was never shown to be real to approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily bureaucratic
@US_FDA saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new
vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam vaccines
lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the data.
Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to decide. They needed a
kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA. You'll
find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has shown themselves
capable of not being rushed into a decision whether or not the rest of
the world wants faster action.
ScottW
2021-09-19 19:29:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 6:26:48 PM UTC-7,
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting
there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as
the extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states
from April through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer,
those who were unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than
the fully vaccinated to get infected,
That number is simply meaningless because people who don't get
hospitalized are often not getting tested. My vaxxed wife went
to urgent care and they said she had covid but only offered a
test. She declined. Any idea if her case was recorded? I doubt
it.
Estimates still happen, like in the Vermont reports we just looked at.
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning. Estimates
(right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the "experts" react
accordingly and accomplished nothing but economic mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New Zealand,
South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific models can work.
Such complete BS. Every nation has it's own situation.
Korea burned by SARS so they had an aggressive response.
But look at 'em now....2000 cases/day.
Vietnam had no data collection, no testing...so who the hell knows?
New Zealand, like Australia had limited early exposure and as an island was able to effectively
defer infection with travel bans and quarantines etc.
Australia couldn't maintain and I doubt New Zealand will either.
Post by MiNe109
While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive effect on
poverty levels according to the Census.
Free money never lasts.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed but
not hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be surprise if
the actual case rate is nearly identical but the less severe
vaxxed cases have a much higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
You are so stuck in your box.
Do juries only free people when they have proof of innocence?
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control study,
being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of
reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion is a
little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it again. 246
cases.
That's how they were selected.
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3% of
people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid again. 50
people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF? That's not what
the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it again
yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that means 66% (324)
of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to not get it again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected so I don't
see how that makes your point.
Apply that logic to the case group..
Post by MiNe109
To say they didn't need need vaccination would require comparing the
control group to another control group.
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude that
you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you had covid and
don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic regression."
Again, I await your detailed explanation.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting political
pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump for suspected
pressure that was never shown to be real to approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily bureaucratic
@US_FDA saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new
vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam vaccines
lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the data.
Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to decide. They needed a
kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA.
He did so when they had the data.

Was the FDA dawdling and wasting lives to perhaps do a little election meddling?
Post by MiNe109
You'll
find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has shown themselves
capable of not being rushed into a decision whether or not the rest of
the world wants faster action.
How many FDA Advisory Board members quit over Trumps kick in the ass?
How many quit over Biden's meddling?

and they actually said they didn't approve the booster for low risk groups for a lack of data.

So you're completely full of shit on this.

ScottW
Art Sackman
2021-09-19 20:13:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ScottW
So you're completely full of shit on this.
ScottW
Why are you being so limiting?
MiNe109
2021-09-19 23:03:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning.
Estimates (right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the
"experts" react accordingly and accomplished nothing but economic
mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New
Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific models can
work.
Such complete BS.
No. Facts.
Post by ScottW
Every nation has it's own situation. Korea burned by SARS so they
had an aggressive response. But look at 'em now....2000 cases/day.
Vietnam had no data collection, no testing...so who the hell knows?
Delta was bad for Vietnam, but if there was no data how do you know
there was an increase?

Discounting Korea because they knew what to do
seems like it goes against your argument that the experts had it wrong.
And they're alarmed at 2,000 deaths. We're on the way to a million.
Post by ScottW
New Zealand, like Australia had limited early exposure and as an
island was able to effectively defer infection with travel bans and
quarantines etc. Australia couldn't maintain and I doubt New Zealand
will either.
New Zealand is going all in on vaccination and still has effective test
and tracing. Why wouldn't it work?

Australia's below forty deaths per million, so "couldn't maintain"
should be seen in relative terms.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive effect
on poverty levels according to the Census.
Free money never lasts.
Gets spent, supports the economy.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed
but not hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be
surprise if the actual case rate is nearly identical but the
less severe vaxxed cases have a much higher rate of escape
from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
You are so stuck in your box. Do juries only free people when they
have proof of innocence?
They don't convict because they "wouldn't be surprised" if there was
evidence they haven't seen because of "escape from detection."
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural
immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control
study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the
odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion is a
little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it again.
246 cases.
That's how they were selected.
Post by ScottW
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3% of
people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid again.
50 people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF? That's not
what the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
Post by ScottW
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it
again yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that means
66% (324) of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to not get it
again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected so I
don't see how that makes your point.
Apply that logic to the case group..
They looked at a group of the reinfected and measured their vaccination
status.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
To say they didn't need need vaccination would require comparing
the control group to another control group.
Post by ScottW
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude
that you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you had
covid and don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic regression."
Again, I await your detailed explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_logistic_regression

I don't have the statistics training to understand or explain it but the
section about conditional likelihood seems relevant.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting
political pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump
for suspected pressure that was never shown to be real to
approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily bureaucratic
@US_FDA saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new
vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam
start saving lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the
data. Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to decide. They
needed a kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA.
He did so when they had the data.
Was the FDA dawdling and wasting lives to perhaps do a little
election meddling?
No.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402

Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq and public
confidence was falling, implying there was danger a substantial number
would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
You'll find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has shown
themselves capable of not being rushed into a decision whether or
not the rest of the world wants faster action.
How many FDA Advisory Board members quit over Trumps kick in the ass?
Kinda specific. Leaves out HHS Secretary Alex Azar and also BARDA
Director Rick Bright, whose early warnings about COVID were ignored.
Post by ScottW
How many quit over Biden's meddling?
and they actually said they didn't approve the booster for low risk
groups for a lack of data.
Seems like a good reason. Shows they don't act under political pressure.
ScottW
2021-09-20 05:01:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning.
Estimates (right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the
"experts" react accordingly and accomplished nothing but economic
mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New
Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific models can
work.
Such complete BS.
No. Facts.
Who needs 'em when you dig your own hole every time.
"Delta was bad for Vietnam"
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Every nation has it's own situation. Korea burned by SARS so they
had an aggressive response. But look at 'em now....2000 cases/day.
Vietnam had no data collection, no testing...so who the hell knows?
Delta was bad for Vietnam, but if there was no data how do you know
there was an increase?
Discounting Korea because they knew what to do
seems like it goes against your argument that the experts had it wrong.
They did as well as could be done in an open society.
300,000 cases and climbing.
Post by MiNe109
And they're alarmed at 2,000 deaths. We're on the way to a million.
Yeah...they don't have your obesity problem.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
New Zealand, like Australia had limited early exposure and as an
island was able to effectively defer infection with travel bans and
quarantines etc. Australia couldn't maintain and I doubt New Zealand
will either.
New Zealand is going all in on vaccination and still has effective test
and tracing. Why wouldn't it work?
Perhaps there it will...not a very densely populated island nation.
Post by MiNe109
Australia's below forty deaths per million, so "couldn't maintain"
should be seen in relative terms.
They were lucky that covid didn't strike them when treatments were non-existant.
Everyone is enjoying a much lower case fatality rate now.
Countries that were hit early were hit hardest. That's the simple truth.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive effect
on poverty levels according to the Census.
Free money never lasts.
Gets spent, supports the economy.
Temporarily.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that vaxxed
but not hospitalized cases are escaping. I wouldn't be
surprise if the actual case rate is nearly identical but the
less severe vaxxed cases have a much higher rate of escape
from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
You are so stuck in your box. Do juries only free people when they
have proof of innocence?
They don't convict because they "wouldn't be surprised" if there was
evidence they haven't seen because of "escape from detection."
Do you think failure to find a viable animal host is "lack of evidence"?
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural
immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control
study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the
odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion is a
little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it again.
246 cases.
That's how they were selected.
Post by ScottW
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3% of
people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid again.
50 people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF? That's not
what the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
Post by ScottW
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it
again yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that means
66% (324) of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to not get it
again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected so I
don't see how that makes your point.
Apply that logic to the case group..
They looked at a group of the reinfected and measured their vaccination
status.
1/5 of the them were vaxxed and got it again anyway.

These vaccination numbers within the groups seem pretty random and aren't a
clear definitive factor in outcome.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
To say they didn't need need vaccination would require comparing
the control group to another control group.
Post by ScottW
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude
that you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you had
covid and don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic regression."
Again, I await your detailed explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_logistic_regression
Yeah...I don't understand it either. Seems to be completely driven
by the size of the groups which was just based on convenience.
Not any validity of the sample representing the general populace.
You can do the fancy math and get a number.
Do it again with another convenient control and case group...and you'll get a different answer.
Post by MiNe109
I don't have the statistics training to understand or explain it but the
section about conditional likelihood seems relevant.
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going to get covid multiple
times if we live long enough. Eventually it won't be any more severe than a common cold
because we were all exposed as kids when the reaction was mild and developed
some resistance (I think we need quit calling it immunity as that doesn't seem to be possible).
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting
political pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched Trump
for suspected pressure that was never shown to be real to
approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily bureaucratic
@US_FDA saved five years in the approval of NUMEROUS great new
vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow turtle. Get the dam
start saving lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the
data. Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to decide. They
needed a kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA.
He did so when they had the data.
Was the FDA dawdling and wasting lives to perhaps do a little election meddling?
No.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402
Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq
Who got burned? The data on hydroxy remains mixed.
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't effective for all.
There really wasn't anything else at the time.
You all just freaked out because Trump thought it worth trying.
Post by MiNe109
and public
confidence was falling, implying there was danger a substantial number
would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to "raise confidence".
Imagine that....
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
You'll find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has shown
themselves capable of not being rushed into a decision whether or
not the rest of the world wants faster action.
How many FDA Advisory Board members quit over Trumps kick in the ass?
Kinda specific.
Of course it's specific. Specifics are good....not this broad brush of BS you
paint with.
Post by MiNe109
Leaves out HHS Secretary Alex Azar and also BARDA
Director Rick Bright, whose early warnings about COVID were ignored.
Post by ScottW
How many quit over Biden's meddling?
and they actually said they didn't approve the booster for low risk
groups for a lack of data.
Seems like a good reason. Shows they don't act under political pressure.
So Biden pushed them to approve something for which they had insufficient data
and they didn't approve it in spite of Biden's pressure.
Trump pushed them to approve something for which they did have data and they
did actually approve it.

Now you say that the FDA is to be commended for doing the right thing.
Which president was pushing them to do the right thing?
Do you need conditional logic regression to figure it out?

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-20 16:04:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:54:54 AM UTC-7, MINe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning.
Estimates (right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the
"experts" react accordingly and accomplished nothing but
economic mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New
Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific
models can work.
Such complete BS.
No. Facts.
Who needs 'em when you dig your own hole every time. "Delta was bad
for Vietnam"
How is that digging a hole? Vietnam had COVID well-handled until the
delta variant showed up. You're also repeating the "no testing" fallacy.
Vietnam used contact tracing. More here:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/06/29/an-ideal-public-health-model-vietnams-state-led-preventative-low-cost-response-to-covid-19/
Post by MiNe109
Every nation has it's own situation. Korea burned by SARS so they
had an aggressive response. But look at 'em now....2000
cases/day. Vietnam had no data collection, no testing...so who
the hell knows?
Delta was bad for Vietnam, but if there was no data how do you know
there was an increase?
Discounting Korea because they knew what to do seems like it goes
against your argument that the experts had it wrong.
They did as well as could be done in an open society. 300,000 cases
and climbing.
No way a cumulative counting won't be climbing. How does 300,000 compare
to the US 42m?
Post by MiNe109
And they're alarmed at 2,000 deaths. We're on the way to a
million.
Yeah...they don't have your obesity problem.
Now you're making stuff up. Also, the obesity thing is exaggerated, as
shown in another thread.
Post by MiNe109
New Zealand, like Australia had limited early exposure and as an
island was able to effectively defer infection with travel bans
and quarantines etc. Australia couldn't maintain and I doubt New
Zealand will either.
New Zealand is going all in on vaccination and still has effective
test and tracing. Why wouldn't it work?
Perhaps there it will...not a very densely populated island nation.
They'll have to deal with the conditions as they find them.
Post by MiNe109
Australia's below forty deaths per million, so "couldn't maintain"
should be seen in relative terms.
They were lucky that covid didn't strike them when treatments were
non-existant. Everyone is enjoying a much lower case fatality rate
now. Countries that were hit early were hit hardest. That's the
simple truth.
Australia has just over one thousand dead and it's easier to treat
someone who hasn't caught COVID.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive
effect on poverty levels according to the Census.
Free money never lasts.
Gets spent, supports the economy.
Temporarily.
That's nice. Do you think there will be a recession because fed benefits
have ended?
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that
vaxxed but not hospitalized cases are escaping. I
wouldn't be surprise if the actual case rate is nearly
identical but the less severe vaxxed cases have a much
higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
You are so stuck in your box. Do juries only free people when
they have proof of innocence?
They don't convict because they "wouldn't be surprised" if there
was evidence they haven't seen because of "escape from detection."
Do you think failure to find a viable animal host is "lack of
evidence"?
A virus similar to SARS CoV 2 has been found in Laotian
bats. However, this is a different subject than you having a feeling
about undetected case levels.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural
immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control
study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times
the odds of reinfection compared with being fully
vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion
is a little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it
again. 246 cases.
That's how they were selected.
Post by ScottW
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3%
of people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid
again. 50 people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF?
That's not what the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
Post by ScottW
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it
again yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that
means 66% (324) of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to
not get it again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected
so I don't see how that makes your point.
Apply that logic to the case group..
They looked at a group of the reinfected and measured their
vaccination status.
1/5 of the them were vaxxed and got it again anyway.
Of the reinfected, 4/5 weren't completely vaxxed. Works both ways.
These vaccination numbers within the groups seem pretty random and
aren't a clear definitive factor in outcome.
Less vaccination: more reinfection. Not random. Outcome not measured.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
To say they didn't need need vaccination would require
comparing the control group to another control group.
Post by ScottW
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude
that you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you
had covid and don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic
regression."
Again, I await your detailed explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_logistic_regression
Yeah...I don't understand it either. Seems to be completely driven
by the size of the groups which was just based on convenience. Not
any validity of the sample representing the general populace. You
can do the fancy math and get a number. Do it again with another
convenient control and case group...and you'll get a different
answer.
There's a confidence level in the study, so that's not true. 95% so only
one chance in twenty you'll get a different answer.
Post by MiNe109
I don't have the statistics training to understand or explain it
but the section about conditional likelihood seems relevant.
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going to get
covid multiple times if we live long enough. Eventually it won't be
any more severe than a common cold because we were all exposed as
kids when the reaction was mild and developed some resistance (I
think we need quit calling it immunity as that doesn't seem to be
possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon. It's great
you have resistance to the common cold but that resistance is only good
for the strain you caught as a kid:

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting
political pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched
Trump for suspected pressure that was never shown to be
real to approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily
NUMEROUS great new vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow
Stop playing games and start saving lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the
data. Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to
decide. They needed a kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA.
He did so when they had the data.
Was the FDA dawdling and wasting lives to perhaps do a little election meddling?
No.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402
Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq
Who got burned?
The FDA.
The data on hydroxy remains mixed.
Ineffective mixed with useless.
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't effective
for all. There really wasn't anything else at the time. You all just
freaked out because Trump thought it worth trying.
Excepting those who poisoned themselves with it.
Post by MiNe109
and public confidence was falling, implying there was danger a
substantial number would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to "raise
confidence". Imagine that....
Pfizer, the only approved vaccine, had production delays and missed the
November deadline. The FDA wasn't responsible.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
You'll find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has
shown themselves capable of not being rushed into a decision
whether or not the rest of the world wants faster action.
How many FDA Advisory Board members quit over Trumps kick in the ass?
Kinda specific.
Of course it's specific. Specifics are good....not this broad
brush of BS you paint with.
No, it's just you playing "guess what I know."
Post by MiNe109
Leaves out HHS Secretary Alex Azar and also BARDA Director Rick
Bright, whose early warnings about COVID were ignored.
How many quit over Biden's meddling?
and they actually said they didn't approve the booster for low
risk groups for a lack of data.
Seems like a good reason. Shows they don't act under political pressure.
So Biden pushed them to approve something for which they had
insufficient data and they didn't approve it in spite of Biden's
pressure. Trump pushed them to approve something for which they did
have data and they did actually approve it.
And Pfizer couldn't deliver it. No political delay.
Now you say that the FDA is to be commended for doing the right
thing. Which president was pushing them to do the right thing?
The Pfizer vaccine got an emergency authorization when it was available
in December. Didn't matter if it were approved before it was available.

Boosters will eventually be called for for everyone, but now are limited
to special groups.
Do you need conditional logic regression to figure it out?
What alternate universe is your control?
ScottW
2021-09-20 16:39:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
That's been the problem fighting covid from the beginning.
Estimates (right or wrong...mostly wrong) happen and the
"experts" react accordingly and accomplished nothing but
economic mayhem.
Really? Early response worked in such disparate places as New
Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam proving that scientific
models can work.
Such complete BS.
No. Facts.
Who needs 'em when you dig your own hole every time. "Delta was bad
for Vietnam"
How is that digging a hole? Vietnam had COVID well-handled until the
delta variant showed up. You're also repeating the "no testing" fallacy.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/06/29/an-ideal-public-health-model-vietnams-state-led-preventative-low-cost-response-to-covid-19/
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Every nation has it's own situation. Korea burned by SARS so they
had an aggressive response. But look at 'em now....2000
cases/day. Vietnam had no data collection, no testing...so who
the hell knows?
Delta was bad for Vietnam, but if there was no data how do you know
there was an increase?
Discounting Korea because they knew what to do seems like it goes
against your argument that the experts had it wrong.
They did as well as could be done in an open society. 300,000 cases
and climbing.
No way a cumulative counting won't be climbing. How does 300,000 compare
to the US 42m?
Post by MiNe109
And they're alarmed at 2,000 deaths. We're on the way to a
million.
Yeah...they don't have your obesity problem.
Now you're making stuff up. Also, the obesity thing is exaggerated, as
shown in another thread.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
New Zealand, like Australia had limited early exposure and as an
island was able to effectively defer infection with travel bans
and quarantines etc. Australia couldn't maintain and I doubt New
Zealand will either.
New Zealand is going all in on vaccination and still has effective
test and tracing. Why wouldn't it work?
Perhaps there it will...not a very densely populated island nation.
They'll have to deal with the conditions as they find them.
Post by MiNe109
Australia's below forty deaths per million, so "couldn't maintain"
should be seen in relative terms.
They were lucky that covid didn't strike them when treatments were
non-existant. Everyone is enjoying a much lower case fatality rate
now. Countries that were hit early were hit hardest. That's the
simple truth.
Australia has just over one thousand dead and it's easier to treat
someone who hasn't caught COVID.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
While the US could be doing better, we're in recovery with the
unexpected bonus that pandemic response has had a positive
effect on poverty levels according to the Census.
Free money never lasts.
Gets spent, supports the economy.
Temporarily.
That's nice. Do you think there will be a recession because fed benefits
have ended?
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized
This is true....but it also lends to the premise that
vaxxed but not hospitalized cases are escaping. I
wouldn't be surprise if the actual case rate is nearly
identical but the less severe vaxxed cases have a much
higher rate of escape from detection.
Not surprised but also not supported by evidence.
What part of "escape from detection" is confusing you now?
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
You are so stuck in your box. Do juries only free people when
they have proof of innocence?
They don't convict because they "wouldn't be surprised" if there
was evidence they haven't seen because of "escape from detection."
Do you think failure to find a viable animal host is "lack of evidence"?
A virus similar to SARS CoV 2 has been found in Laotian
bats. However, this is a different subject than you having a feeling
about undetected case levels.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and 11 times more
Post by MiNe109
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical it said nothing about those with natural
immunity
Exactly. Their break through case rate is even lower.
Not according to the Kentucky study; "In this case-control
study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times
the odds of reinfection compared with being fully
vaccinated."
Yeah...I looked up that report and their leap of conclusion
is a little stretched. Case group...all had covid and got it
again. 246 cases.
That's how they were selected.
Post by ScottW
Only 20.3% were fully vaxxed. So...sadly...that means 20.3%
of people who had covid and got vaxxed can still catch covid
again. 50 people. 199 got it again without the vaccine WTF?
That's not what the vax trials said. Were they all J&J?
They can only report what they observed. They were selected for
confirmed reinfection, then broken down by vaccination status.
Post by ScottW
In the control group (492)...all had covid and none caught it
again yet. 34.3% (168) of them were fully vaxxed. So that
means 66% (324) of people who had covid don't need a vaxx to
not get it again.
The control group was chosen because they weren't reinfected
so I don't see how that makes your point.
Apply that logic to the case group..
They looked at a group of the reinfected and measured their
vaccination status.
1/5 of the them were vaxxed and got it again anyway.
Of the reinfected, 4/5 weren't completely vaxxed. Works both ways.
These vaccination numbers within the groups seem pretty random and
aren't a clear definitive factor in outcome.
Less vaccination: more reinfection. Not random. Outcome not measured.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
To say they didn't need need vaccination would require
comparing the control group to another control group.
Post by ScottW
Feel free to explain how this mess of data lets them conclude
that you're 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected if you
had covid and don't get vaxxed.
The 2.34 is "Estimated based on conditional logistic
regression."
Again, I await your detailed explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_logistic_regression
Yeah...I don't understand it either. Seems to be completely driven
by the size of the groups which was just based on convenience. Not
any validity of the sample representing the general populace. You
can do the fancy math and get a number. Do it again with another
convenient control and case group...and you'll get a different
answer.
There's a confidence level in the study, so that's not true. 95% so only
one chance in twenty you'll get a different answer.
Post by MiNe109
I don't have the statistics training to understand or explain it
but the section about conditional likelihood seems relevant.
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going to get
covid multiple times if we live long enough. Eventually it won't be
any more severe than a common cold because we were all exposed as
kids when the reaction was mild and developed some resistance (I
think we need quit calling it immunity as that doesn't seem to be
possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon. It's great
you have resistance to the common cold but that resistance is only good
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Are you in fear of death from a cold? That was his point.
There is a level of cross resistance so far for covid strains.
And being exposed as a child is almost harmless.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Notice the media won't cover the Biden admin putting
political pressure on FDA for boosters but the torched
Trump for suspected pressure that was never shown to be
real to approve the vaccine.
"While my pushing the money drenched but heavily
NUMEROUS great new vaccines, it is still a big, old, slow
Stop playing games and start saving lives!!!"
Is that not pressure?
Yup, but the circumstances were very different. They had the
data. Trials were done. FDA didn't meet for weeks to
decide. They needed a kick in the ass.
Thank you for acknowledging that Trump in fact pressured the FDA.
He did so when they had the data.
Was the FDA dawdling and wasting lives to perhaps do a little election meddling?
No.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402
Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq
Who got burned?
The FDA.
Only in your psychopathic politically warped pea brain.
Post by MiNe109
The data on hydroxy remains mixed.
Ineffective mixed with useless.
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't effective
for all. There really wasn't anything else at the time. You all just
freaked out because Trump thought it worth trying.
Excepting those who poisoned themselves with it.
I suspect some piano player somewhere was dumb enough to drown in it.....
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
and public confidence was falling, implying there was danger a
substantial number would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to "raise
confidence". Imagine that....
Pfizer, the only approved vaccine, had production delays and missed the
November deadline. The FDA wasn't responsible.
Because they approved it. And Trump demanded they start production long
before approval....he's the one who stuck his neck out and risked getting burned.
But he didn't worry about that.
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
You'll find Biden's FDA also has possession of facts and has
shown themselves capable of not being rushed into a decision
whether or not the rest of the world wants faster action.
How many FDA Advisory Board members quit over Trumps kick in the ass?
Kinda specific.
Of course it's specific. Specifics are good....not this broad
brush of BS you paint with.
No, it's just you playing "guess what I know."
Post by MiNe109
Leaves out HHS Secretary Alex Azar and also BARDA Director Rick
Bright, whose early warnings about COVID were ignored.
Post by ScottW
How many quit over Biden's meddling?
and they actually said they didn't approve the booster for low
risk groups for a lack of data.
Seems like a good reason. Shows they don't act under political pressure.
So Biden pushed them to approve something for which they had
insufficient data and they didn't approve it in spite of Biden's
pressure. Trump pushed them to approve something for which they did
have data and they did actually approve it.
And Pfizer couldn't deliver it. No political delay.
Irrelevant.
Post by MiNe109
Now you say that the FDA is to be commended for doing the right
thing. Which president was pushing them to do the right thing?
Snip your pathetic refusal to answer the question.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-20 18:08:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going to
get covid multiple times if we live long enough. Eventually it
won't be any more severe than a common cold because we were all
exposed as kids when the reaction was mild and developed some
resistance (I think we need quit calling it immunity as that
doesn't seem to be possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon. It's
great you have resistance to the common cold but that resistance is
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Are you in fear of death from a cold? That was his point.

You said you had resistance to the common cold because you had it as a
kid. That was your point.
There is a level of cross resistance so far for covid strains. And
being exposed as a child is almost harmless.
Unless you die or get long COVID. Sure, it's rare, but five hundred dead
kids is too many. Fortunately, kid vax is on the way.

<snip>
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq
Who got burned?
The FDA.
Only in your psychopathic politically warped pea brain.
They got pressured into studying it then had to take heat for suspending
those studies.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
The data on hydroxy remains mixed.
Ineffective mixed with useless.
Post by ScottW
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't
effective for all. There really wasn't anything else at the time.
You all just freaked out because Trump thought it worth trying.
Excepting those who poisoned themselves with it.
I suspect some piano player somewhere was dumb enough to drown in it.....
Aquarium people in Arizona so desperate they took the similar
chloroquine phosphate which was also being recommended for COVID. Other
harm was to people with lupus who couldn't get their regular medicine.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and public confidence was falling, implying there was danger a
substantial number would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to
"raise confidence". Imagine that....
Pfizer, the only approved vaccine, had production delays and missed
the November deadline. The FDA wasn't responsible.
Because they approved it. And Trump demanded they start production
long before approval....he's the one who stuck his neck out and
risked getting burned. But he didn't worry about that.
Yes, he bravely didn't worry about the political downside of providing a
miracle cure. It's not courageous to support vaccine development, it's
the only thing to do.

<snip>
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
So Biden pushed them to approve something for which they had
insufficient data and they didn't approve it in spite of Biden's
pressure. Trump pushed them to approve something for which they
did have data and they did actually approve it.
And Pfizer couldn't deliver it. No political delay.
Irrelevant.
Exactly relevant to the question of why vaccine wasn't available before
the election. There wasn't any, so it's not the FDA's fault Trump was
demanding something unavailable be distributed.

Not that Trump's distribution plan any great shakes:

https://coronavirus.house.gov/news/press-releases/new-gao-report-details-trump-administration-s-failed-coronavirus-response
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Now you say that the FDA is to be commended for doing the right
thing. Which president was pushing them to do the right thing?
Snip your pathetic refusal to answer the question.
Both and both suffered delays. Trump had to wait for vaccine to be
available, Biden for studies to continue. Politico says the FDA blames
the CDC for being too slow, FWIW.
ScottW
2021-09-21 03:41:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going to
get covid multiple times if we live long enough. Eventually it
won't be any more severe than a common cold because we were all
exposed as kids when the reaction was mild and developed some
resistance (I think we need quit calling it immunity as that
doesn't seem to be possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon. It's
great you have resistance to the common cold but that resistance is
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Are you in fear of death from a cold? That was his point.
You said you had resistance to the common cold because you had it as a
kid. That was your point.
No...I said covid will be no worse than a common cold because people will have had covid as
a child and developed resistance to covid so covid will be no big deal.
Unless covid rots your brain the evidence of which is growing.
There is a level of cross resistance so far for covid strains. And
being exposed as a child is almost harmless.
Unless you die or get long COVID. Sure, it's rare, but five hundred dead
kids is too many. Fortunately, kid vax is on the way.
<snip>
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Looks like the FDA got burned when they approve hcq
Who got burned?
The FDA.
Only in your psychopathic politically warped pea brain.
They got pressured into studying it then had to take heat for suspending
those studies.
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
The data on hydroxy remains mixed.
Ineffective mixed with useless.
Post by ScottW
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't
effective for all. There really wasn't anything else at the time.
You all just freaked out because Trump thought it worth trying.
Excepting those who poisoned themselves with it.
I suspect some piano player somewhere was dumb enough to drown in it.....
Aquarium people in Arizona so desperate they took the similar
chloroquine phosphate which was also being recommended for COVID.
Must have gottent their medical advise from their piano teacher.
Other
harm was to people with lupus who couldn't get their regular medicine.
Because the FDA got really stupid....
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and public confidence was falling, implying there was danger a
substantial number would refuse the vaccine. Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to
"raise confidence". Imagine that....
Pfizer, the only approved vaccine, had production delays and missed
the November deadline. The FDA wasn't responsible.
Because they approved it. And Trump demanded they start production
long before approval....he's the one who stuck his neck out and
risked getting burned. But he didn't worry about that.
Yes, he bravely didn't worry about the political downside of providing a
miracle cure.
And it's a perspective like that makes you one of the worlds
biggest fucktards. No other way to call it....

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-21 14:49:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 9:04:27 AM UTC-7, MINe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going
to get covid multiple times if we live long enough.
Eventually it won't be any more severe than a common cold
because we were all exposed as kids when the reaction was
mild and developed some resistance (I think we need quit
calling it immunity as that doesn't seem to be possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon.
It's great you have resistance to the common cold but that
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Are you in fear of death from a cold? That was his point.
You said you had resistance to the common cold because you had it
as a kid. That was your point.
No...I said covid will be no worse than a common cold because people
will have had covid as a child and developed resistance to covid so
covid will be no big deal. Unless covid rots your brain the evidence
of which is growing.
Vaccination would be way safer. You'll have to wait for real data on the
severity of reinfection.

<hcq>
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
It was safe...no was hurt for trying it even if it wasn't
effective for all. There really wasn't anything else at the
time. You all just freaked out because Trump thought it worth
trying.
Excepting those who poisoned themselves with it.
I suspect some piano player somewhere was dumb enough to drown in it.....
Aquarium people in Arizona so desperate they took the similar
chloroquine phosphate which was also being recommended for COVID.
Must have gottent their medical advise from their piano teacher.
Trump was recommending hcq at the time.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Other harm was to people with lupus who couldn't get their regular
medicine.
Because the FDA got really stupid....
Yes, they should have federalized the supply and taken charge of
distribution like they're doing with Regeneron.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
and public confidence was falling, implying there was
danger a substantial number would refuse the vaccine.
Imagine that.
Imagine not getting the vaccine for months as they dawdle to
"raise confidence". Imagine that....
Pfizer, the only approved vaccine, had production delays and
missed the November deadline. The FDA wasn't responsible.
Because they approved it. And Trump demanded they start
production long before approval....he's the one who stuck his
neck out and risked getting burned. But he didn't worry about
that.
Yes, he bravely didn't worry about the political downside of
providing a miracle cure.
And it's a perspective like that makes you one of the worlds biggest
fucktards. No other way to call it....
Insults are not evidence, except to show you're out of facts. There is
nothing courageous about funding vaccine development in a pandemic.

Trump consistently looked for a magic bullet over doing the real work of
containing the pandemic.
ScottW
2021-09-21 16:35:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 9:04:27 AM UTC-7, MINe109
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
I'm going with the epidemiologist who says we're all going
to get covid multiple times if we live long enough.
Eventually it won't be any more severe than a common cold
because we were all exposed as kids when the reaction was
mild and developed some resistance (I think we need quit
calling it immunity as that doesn't seem to be possible).
There's no guarantee SARS CoV 2 will calm down any time soon.
It's great you have resistance to the common cold but that
https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551
Are you in fear of death from a cold? That was his point.
You said you had resistance to the common cold because you had it
as a kid. That was your point.
No...I said covid will be no worse than a common cold because people
will have had covid as a child and developed resistance to covid so
covid will be no big deal. Unless covid rots your brain the evidence
of which is growing.
Vaccination would be way safer.
When are you going to catch up with reality?
Vaccination doesn't stop you from catching covid.
It's just a good first step to keeping it mild.

You really gonna keep boostering everyone forever?
Post by MiNe109
Trump consistently looked for a magic bullet over doing the real work of
containing the pandemic.
Still proving you're a fucktard. It's done. You don't to keep proving it.

Reality is the pandemic was beyond containment before Fauci even accepted human to human transmission.

Your fact free claim amounts to claiming trump had a magic wand of containment and wouldn't use it.

It's a fucktards argument.

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-21 18:02:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Vaccination would be way safer.
When are you going to catch up with reality? Vaccination doesn't stop
you from catching covid.
http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary

https://news.cnrs.fr/opinions/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-infection-and-transmission#footnote2_9h7wxai

"According to its findings, three to four weeks after the first dose the
incidence of asymptomatic infections (people who tested positive but
experienced no symptoms of the disease) was reduced by 52% when compared
to the control population, without any notable differences due to age,
gender or comorbidities, etc. This reduction in the number of infections
rose to 90% as early as seven days after the second dose. This means
that one week after the last inoculation, a person had ten times less
risk of being unknowingly infected and potentially transmitting the virus."

Control 10, fully vaccinated 1.

The mRNA vaccines reduce chances of infection by about 90%, then reduce
the chance of symptoms of those who are infected.
It's just a good first step to keeping it mild.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm

"During December 14, 2020–April 10, 2021, data ... showed that the
Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were approximately
90% effective in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic infection with
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in real-world conditions."
You really gonna keep boostering everyone forever?
Why keep taking your sartans when your blood pressure has gone down?
Post by MiNe109
Trump consistently looked for a magic bullet over doing the real
work of containing the pandemic.
Still proving you're a fucktard. It's done. You don't to keep proving it.
Still falling back on insults.
Reality is the pandemic was beyond containment before Fauci even
accepted human to human transmission.
Except it was contained in places with scientific responses. Citing
failure as proof of Trump's competence doesn't make sense.
Your fact free claim amounts to claiming trump had a magic wand of
containment and wouldn't use it.
He had other wands he didn't use, but he was ready with the snake oil.
ScottW
2021-09-21 20:52:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MiNe109
Post by MiNe109
Vaccination would be way safer.
When are you going to catch up with reality? Vaccination doesn't stop
you from catching covid.
http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary
https://news.cnrs.fr/opinions/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-infection-and-transmission#footnote2_9h7wxai
"According to its findings, three to four weeks after the first dose the
incidence of asymptomatic infections (people who tested positive but
experienced no symptoms of the disease) was reduced by 52% when compared
to the control population, without any notable differences due to age,
gender or comorbidities, etc.
This is very old data. Time for a refresher...

In May, vaccines had an estimated 90 percent effectiveness at preventing new cases. By mid-July, the estimated effectiveness had dropped to just under 80 percent. By that point, vaccinated people were more likely to get infected and actually feel sick. Breakthrough infections became more common.

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22630979/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-delta-variant

I recall you once posted that we need 90% vaxx rate to create herd immunity against delta.
Well 100% vaxxed will only get you to 80% immunity....so that's out.
No big deal....as the vaxx is still very effective at preventing hospitalization and death unless you've got other health issues.
Post by MiNe109
This reduction in the number of infections
rose to 90% as early as seven days after the second dose. This means
that one week after the last inoculation, a person had ten times less
risk of being unknowingly infected and potentially transmitting the virus."
and pre-delta.

If this was true
Post by MiNe109
Reality is the pandemic was beyond containment before Fauci even
accepted human to human transmission.
Except it was contained in places with scientific responses.
BS. I don't think you can even define contained.
Post by MiNe109
Citing
failure as proof of Trump's competence doesn't make sense.
Your complaining that Trump wasn't god.
Post by MiNe109
Your fact free claim amounts to claiming trump had a magic wand of
containment and wouldn't use it.
He had other wands he didn't use, but he was ready with the snake oil.
At least you admit you're talking about magic....

ScottW
MiNe109
2021-09-22 15:39:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 7:49:14 AM UTC-7, MINe109
Post by MiNe109
Vaccination would be way safer.
When are you going to catch up with reality? Vaccination doesn't
stop you from catching covid.
http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary
https://news.cnrs.fr/opinions/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-infection-and-transmission#footnote2_9h7wxai
"According to its findings, three to four weeks after the first dose
the incidence of asymptomatic infections (people who tested positive
but experienced no symptoms of the disease) was reduced by 52% when
compared to the control population, without any notable differences
due to age, gender or comorbidities, etc.
This is very old data. Time for a refresher...
Published August 9.

Here's a newer one:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm

August 27 for data up to August 14.
Post by ScottW
In May, vaccines had an estimated 90 percent effectiveness at
preventing new cases. By mid-July, the estimated effectiveness had
dropped to just under 80 percent. By that point, vaccinated people
were more likely to get infected and actually feel sick. Breakthrough
infections became more common.
Okay, Control 10, fully vaccinated 2.
Post by ScottW
https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22630979/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-delta-variant
I recall you once posted that we need 90% vaxx rate to create herd
immunity against delta. Well 100% vaxxed will only get you to 80%
immunity....so that's out. No big deal....as the vaxx is still very
effective at preventing hospitalization and death unless you've got
other health issues.
Those numbers don't go together.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
This reduction in the number of infections rose to 90% as early as
seven days after the second dose. This means that one week after
the last inoculation, a person had ten times less risk of being
unknowingly infected and potentially transmitting the virus."
and pre-delta.
If this was true
Why wouldn't it be true? And how is it you're arguing that vaccines are
getting less effective but are against boosters that would restore the
effectiveness?
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Reality is the pandemic was beyond containment before Fauci even
accepted human to human transmission.
Except it was contained in places with scientific responses.
BS. I don't think you can even define contained.
Excluded middle time.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Citing failure as proof of Trump's competence doesn't make sense.
Your complaining that Trump wasn't god.
I'd settle for him just being a person.
Post by ScottW
Post by MiNe109
Your fact free claim amounts to claiming trump had a magic wand
of containment and wouldn't use it.
He had other wands he didn't use, but he was ready with the snake oil.
At least you admit you're talking about magic....
I spoke metaphorically and that's not what "admit" means.

MiNe109
2021-09-19 14:33:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Art Sackman
Post by MiNe109
Post by ScottW
Natural immunity is coming for us all....just hope getting there doesn't kill you.
https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid/
New U.S. studies released Friday show the COVID-19 vaccines remain
highly effective against hospitalizations and death even as the
extra-contagious delta variant swept the country.
One study tracked over 600,000 COVID-19 cases in 13 states from April
through mid-July. As delta surged in early summer, those who were
unvaccinated were 4.5 times more likely than the fully vaccinated to get
infected, over 10 times more likely to be hospitalized and 11 times more
likely to die, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
End quote.
how typical
it said nothing about those with natural immunity
Assume they're counted among the unvaccinated. Also, vaccinations
provide natural immunity by triggering the immune system.
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